Wesley is an essayist and podcaster. He’s written extensively for Tablet, Esquire, and New York Magazine, and many of his essays were compiled in a book, The Souls of Yellow Folk. More of his writing and podcasting can be found on his substack, “Year Zero.” He’s been chronicling the gender revolution aspect of the successor ideology on X these past few years — and he eloquently lets rip more emphatically than ever in this conversation.
For two clips of our convo — on the violence that can spring from trans ideology, and the paralysis of Dems on trans issues — head to our YouTube page.
Other topics: his lifelong musical talent; getting a song on Gilmore Girls; Judith Butler and critical gender theory; postmodernism vs nature; Germaine Greer and TERFs; the woke targeting Chimamanda Adichie; tomboys and effeminate boys; fearing puberty; Jazz Jennings; the Dutch protocol and gatekeeping; the gray market of puberty blockers and HRT; Planned Parenthood; gender identity as “mystical”; adults unable to pass; Chase Strangio against gay marriage; autism; the surge of girls seeking transition; Tumblr and social contagion; the suicide canard; the “cisfag” slur; women’s shelters; Tavistock; the Cass Review; Hannah Barnes’ Time to Think; JK Rowling; Labour backpedaling; the NC bathroom bill and corporate boycotts; Dave Chappelle; Eric Adams’ working-class defense of sexed bathrooms; Mamdani; Newsom and fairness in sports; detransitioners; Charlie Kirk; the Minneapolis killer Robin Westman; Zizians; authoritarian vs totalitarian; MLK envy; the empty promises of Dem leaders; the private regret of parents; and how trans ideology helped Trump.
Browse the Dishcast archive for an episode you might enjoy. Coming up: Katie Herzog on drinking your way sober, Michael Wolff on Epstein, Karen Hao on AI, Michel Paradis on Ike, Charles Murray on finding religion, David Ignatius on the Trump effect globally, and Arthur Brooks on the science of happiness. As always, please send any guest recs, dissents, and other comments to dish@andrewsullivan.com.
From a fan of last week’s pod: “There is so much to like about John Ellis … great conversation.”
Another listener writes:
On your episode with John Ellis, I was surprised to hear you are still tough on yourself for supporting the Iraq War. You were just a victim of a sophisticated PR campaign and a compliant press. Where could one turn to find opposing views and actual facts from credible outlets? Were you willing to jump off a cliff with Seymour Hersh as he was being disparaged by others in the press?
Speaking of sophisticated PR campaigns, I see you’ll be talking to Wesley Yang on the origins of the trans movement. For me, it was on 06/18/2015 when I watched this episode on Charlie Rose. If you listen to the discussion and the credentials of the panelists, how would anyone think there was anything wrong with what they were saying?
Five years after that episode, my sister said her son’s 3rd grade class had three gender fluid or trans kids.
P.S. For a quote of the week, here’s H.R. McMaster being told in late 2024 that he could come on the Steven Colbert show only if he disparages Trump:
Well, there is kind of an orthodoxy now, that has gripped, even comedians, who should be sort of more insulated to it. When my book At War with Ourselves came out, my publicist said, “Hey, you know, the Stephen Colbert show said you could come on, but if you come on, you have to condemn President Trump and recommend that nobody vote for him.” And I said, “Well, I’m not going to do that.” So that’s an easy choice.
P.P.S. It was good to read that you signed your name — as a former president of the Oxford Union — on the open letter to George Abaraonye asking him to resign. Interestingly I saw the name of the last president of the Union, Israr Khan, which gives hope that all is not lost with Gen Z. I hope you will fly out to Oxford on October 16 for the formal vote if needed.
P.P.P.S. I’m so happy I got a two-fer last week: a “Correct Guesser” distinction for the VFYW contest, and my email published in the dissent section of the newsletter. Hopefully one day I will be promoted to “super-sleuth” in the contest.
Haha. Another has some guest recs:
First, I want to say that I revere the Dishcast’s religion-themed episodes and always have. I know some people don’t, but I find them engrossing and really spiritually nourishing. (I suppose I would, given that I’m a liberal Catholic who vibes in many ways with your own expression of faith, but there are more than a few of us out there.)
To that end, let me suggest two Jesuits as potential guests. One is Father Jim Martin, SJ, who you probably know of, as he’s one of the most well-known priests in America. Editor-at-large of America magazine, host of “The Spiritual Life” podcast, founder of Outreach (a Catholic ministry for LGBTQ Catholics), and author of a lot of books (including one with an intro by Pope Francis), Jim would be a great Dishcast guest.
The other is Cyrus Habib, SJ. He has a simply amazing story: a child of Iranian immigrants, survivor of three bouts of childhood cancer that left him blind, Rhodes scholar, published photographer, former state rep, senator, and lieutenant governor of Washington state, Catholic convert during his time at Oxford, and now a Jesuit on the path to priesthood. Ezra Klein had him on his podcast back in 2020 and it was riveting. I would LOVE to hear him on the Dishcast and hear what his experience has been like since he’s become a Jesuit.
On a different path, I’d like to recommend Jonathan Blanks — a writer and researcher who specializes in race and criminal justice. Jon has a really interesting background; he’s a white-passing biracial black man (an experience he’s written about) who used to be housed at Cato and is now at the Foundation for Research on Equal Opportunity. A “liberaltarian” of sorts and son of a long-time police officer, Jon is a much-needed and nuanced voice on policing and criminal justice issues, calling for real and substantial reform while recognizing the important role those institutions play in our society.
Habib sounds fascinating. Thank you! A couple more recs:
Do you remember the first video game? The little piece of technology that started it all?
Pong.
Two players moving left or right to knock an object back and forth at one another. It was a simple little exercise and an elegant prediction of the next half-century. Now we’re playing Pong it with political ads, polls, tweets, cable shows, and podcasts (yours excepted), but the game is still the same. Left. Right. Back. Forth.
Exhibit A:
This bopping back-and-forth for the last 50 years is getting really old. Maybe the Dishcast can innovate a new game? How about setting fire to the concepts of left and right?
Tim Urban has the Ladder, which flips the game on its axis. Have him on the Dishcast.
Sheena Michele Mason is disrupting the conventional thinking on race. Find out what she’s playing.
Next up, a “long-time reader and proud subscriber”:
Back in 2009, I recall you had packaged together the stories you had received on the old Dish blog about late-term abortions titled “It’s So Personal.” Are there copies available for purchase, or is there a way to resurrect printing of that book? In this post-Dobbs era and living in a state that is pro-birth (South Carolina) — but with enough policy makers who should want to stop at the current six-week ban and preserve access to contraception — it may be worth resharing.
We never printed “It’s So Personal,” but the best installments are compiled online. From another Dishhead:
I have been a reader of your work for decades and have always appreciated your views and honest sharing. Nearly 30 years ago, Virtually Normal helped me so much — not just personally, but also in engaging with friends and family leading up to my own marriage (actually a civil union, in Vermont).
Your insights have also been a touchstone for me during my divorce … and while I raised my sons … and while I navigated my professional and personal life … and the political and cultural journey we have all been on. I am also a great fan of beagles (my boy is Kooper), Ptown, and healthy debate.
I never felt compelled to reach out, but your words regarding the Kirk assassination and the broader context have helped bring me some clarity that I have been missing the last couple of days. I just wanted to thank you for that — and the decades of helping me think more clearly!
Also, I finally became a paid subscriber today. Sorry that it took too long as well.
So grateful. Another reader responds to last week’s column — “The Woke Right Comes Of Age: And you thought they were in favor of free speech!”
Haha, not me! I never thought either party truly valued free speech!
The simple axiom is that most people love to censor views they disagree with; they don’t like dissent. Whichever group is in the majority at any particular time, having the ability to censor, will happily do so. The minority-view-holders on the receiving end of censorship will cite free speech principles to combat it, but really they just see those principles as tools in their noble ideological struggle; most don’t actually believe in them. Only when you support the free speech of your opponent are your free-speech credentials confirmed.
The founders of the United States, having just been on the receiving end of censorship, were steeped in free-speech talk. Thank goodness they enshrined their fervor into the First Amendment, because I suspect as they got comfortable being victors rather than victims, the appeal of free speech started to wane and the desire to censor returned. Simple timing might be responsible for America being the only country with strong free-speech protections.
Here’s a dissent:
I just renewed my subscription to the Dish. (I toasted the NYT a few years back to subscribe to you instead.) I rarely write to you in response to your opinions, but your attack on Trump over the Kimmel incident has left me a little puzzled. Your characterization of Trump as an authoritarian “in every cell of his body” goes too far and risks obscuring more than it clarifies...
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